Article published in the Manifesto of 20 September 2023, edited by Claudio Dionesalvi, Silvio Messinetti.

The physicist Carlo Rovelli is right. White holes do exist. There is one in Riace where, in a few metres, humanity condenses, resists, releases energy. Women and children play, small workshops work, it is the global village of a stubborn utopia. Around Mimmo Lucano, who welcomes us to the taverna, there are friends and comrades from Calabria and beyond. From Crotone came Filippo Sestito from Arci and Giuseppe Tiano, an eternal trade unionist. There are Martine Mandrea and Robert De Luy, from the Marseille Spring movement, who discussed with us the state of the social struggles in Europe. And there is Maria Giovanna Rullo, who asks Lucano to suggest the title of a children's story she has just written. In front of us is a table covered with Magnogrean delicacies: soppressata, caponata, red wine, sun-dried tomatoes. Mimmo, however, does not touch the food, the tension prevents him from eating. He is in a hurry to leave; the lawyer Giuliano Pisapia is arriving in Reggio, in a few hours he will defend him in the decisive hearing of the trial in which Lucano is accused of crimes against humanity. And Mimmo is talking, trying to control his nervousness on the eve of a day that, however it turns out, will upset his biorhythm.

Luigi Ferrajoli wrote that 'we are faced with an alarming example of a massive violation of the deontology of justice, which requires judges to respect the parties involved, starting with the accused, who is not an enemy'. A logic, that of the enemy, "that our right-wing government has demonstrated and applied to the entire immigration phenomenon". So is this really a political trial?

I have no hesitation in saying that it is. A dangerous message has been coming out of Riace all these years. Humanity is dangerous for power in these times. I have always acted by showing that it is man who must choose. The feeling of injustice in one's own skin comes spontaneously, it does not come from ideology. Guevara used to say that. Being mayor of Locride has given me a privileged view of the mafia. The miller Rocco Gatto did not accept the domination of the underworld. He said in an interview: I'm not afraid. Neither am I.

The government has declared a military war on migrants. Multi-ethnic integration models like Riace now seem a thing of the past. Do Prime Minister Meloni's strategies seem rational to you?

The government's strategy, the right's aversion to those who are different, is a constant. The right is like that all over the world. But aren't they ashamed in Pontida when they say these terrible things? These people come from other continents because the West forced them to come here. Giorgia Meloni's message is sleazy: she wants to pass herself off as right-wing, not rude, not aggressive. But that is not her true nature. Instead, I would prefer the right wing to manifest its true potential of racism, populism and xenophobia. This is the instigator of the attack on Riace. Our experience distorts the narrative on migration. Don Ciotti said beautiful things about us, and with him Father Zanotelli and Monsignor Bregantini. The Gospel according to Matteo Salvini is made up of ostentatious crucifixes, but then it exudes rancour, hatred, wickedness. It is contrary to the Gospel of Christ. It is significant that the Pope is coming to Marseille today, not on an official visit, but as a pilgrim of the city of welcome (Lucano received honorary citizenship of Marseille, ed).

Have we forgotten the tears shed at Cutro?

This government is more dangerous than Salvini's bluster. It is chameleonic. Giorgia Meloni makes the sign of the cross. Sometimes I wonder how this gesture can be reconciled with the political ideas she professes.

He toured Italy this summer and reaffirmed his innocence. How was he received?

People have always been close to me. This shows that the smear campaign against me has not taken root. One of the objectives of Power four years ago was to show that the League could win in Riace. And they succeeded. But Riace was born with the Kurds, with the condemnation of capitalism and neo-liberalism, which are the real causes of mass migration. The powerful always say the same things, but nothing is solved. We are in the time of the despair of consumerism. Riace showed in a vivid way that the left is a Christian ideal of humanity. The right is the opposite. This is the instigator of the persecution against us.

If you are convicted, how do you imagine life in prison?

I am not in good health. I see life differently, the most I have done. There are many people in prison. To understand how I would spend my days. I would study if I were a prisoner. But this waiting has been going on since 2016.

How do you feel about today?

I do not fear material condemnation. I represent an ideal that belongs to all of you. Why should I be afraid? I have never been rich. I have a very special relationship with money, I don't like it. I could have run for the European Parliament, but I didn't want to. I still believe in our ideas: security, weapons and war lead to death. Equality and acceptance lead to life.